Posts by FatFreek 2005

46

"You will never grow old in this present system of things" -- some campaign tools

by FatFreek 2005 in

i am approaching 76 years old.

i can clearly recall that awake!

statement and similar during the pre-1975 hype -- "staying alive in '75", et al.

FatFreek 2005

"Millions Now Living May Never Die" was indeed a valid title of a series of lectures that began in the late teens. I think Rutherford gave some of them along with others. I'm a bit fuzzy with all of this because it's been several years since I researched it but the title of the booklet was apparently decided after the lectures got their start. So the "May Never" morphed into "Will Never" undoubtedly as Rutherford's bravado got the better of him.

Yes, I can understand that elder trainers would naturally latch onto the less incriminating term but they can't escape the facts of the booklet's actual title. Plus, the Watchtower Library CD is full of quotations that include BOTH expressions I don't know why he'd even try.

"THE year is 1923. The concert hall at the Drama and Music Conservatory of São Paulo is packed! ... As a grand finale, a hundred copies of the booklet Millions Now Living Will Never Die! are distributed, along with some in English, German, and Italian." w2014 5/15 p. 31

"History shows that the public exposure of these facts actually began before 1922. For example, the lecture “Millions Now Living May Never Die,” first delivered in 1918 and published in booklet form in 1920, told of Christendom’s failure and of the approaching end of this world." *** w1990 4/1 p. 31

Len

46

"You will never grow old in this present system of things" -- some campaign tools

by FatFreek 2005 in

i am approaching 76 years old.

i can clearly recall that awake!

statement and similar during the pre-1975 hype -- "staying alive in '75", et al.

FatFreek 2005

This may help revive things, CoCo. I quote from a thread that may put it all together.

That was some three years ago and it was quite an experience asking for help on names and dates. As I remember it began with this thread. Aussie Oz made a great contribution.
It continued with this thread.
A year or so later, this thread was added.
Len Miller

46

"You will never grow old in this present system of things" -- some campaign tools

by FatFreek 2005 in

i am approaching 76 years old.

i can clearly recall that awake!

statement and similar during the pre-1975 hype -- "staying alive in '75", et al.

FatFreek 2005

Oh, yes, CoCo -- I remember that cover well. For those who don't, here it is below since it closely ties in to another of Watchtower blunders.

What I don't remember is the back story of all those who contributed with the identities and their birth and death years. It was a group effort. The above graphic gave an extremely dramatic effect to that 1984 Watchtower cover -- an effective notification to the GB that they had failed once again. Not a single apology from them on that one either.

Your relation to them, CoCo is indeed precious, a person on this forum, you, with a history of intimacy with those hand picked icons of faithfulness to that organization. Thank you for letting us know about this.

Len

46

"You will never grow old in this present system of things" -- some campaign tools

by FatFreek 2005 in

i am approaching 76 years old.

i can clearly recall that awake!

statement and similar during the pre-1975 hype -- "staying alive in '75", et al.

FatFreek 2005

LongHairGal: Not that you need my endorsement FatFreek. But I have just checked my original single copy of that Awake (22nd May 1969 page 15) and read the sentence you have quoted word for word.
It is accurate and spot on.

Thanks for noticing. And thanks to Jwfacts.com. Paul not only quotes this important Awake! snippet but provides a link to an actual scan of the same. There is little more off-putting than feeding the JWs with ammunition of inaccuracies and exaggerations from apostates.

Half banana: They have WASTED THE LIVES OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE...............What hurt! what deprivation! What deception! They have duped them into spending their time, money and effort in the useless preaching of their interpretation of the Bible. They have happily culled the capital wealth of their members families. They are money grubbing sociopaths. They should be convicted of deception and abuse.

Religious cults need regulating and limiting with financial penalties for their misdeeds by government intervention.

And that brings us to punitive measures. Even if the GB had apologized for what they said (they didn't) during those times, that act would never have undone all the hurt. I know it probably sounds radical but I put such behavior alongside homicide. Consider the millions of people that were affected. What happens when a murderer apologizes in a court of law? An apology does very little to reduce the penalty -- he/she goes to prison in many countries. What happens when a JW commits some disfellowshipping act and shows no repentance? Absolutely no mercy there! However, when the GB does something egregious like this, where is the justice toward the victims -- where are the punitive measures?Len

46

"You will never grow old in this present system of things" -- some campaign tools

by FatFreek 2005 in

i am approaching 76 years old.

i can clearly recall that awake!

statement and similar during the pre-1975 hype -- "staying alive in '75", et al.

FatFreek 2005

I am approaching 76 years old. I can clearly recall that AWAKE! statement and similar during the pre-1975 hype -- "staying alive in '75", et al. I can remember being angry for the first time with Watchtower literature since my 1956 baptism, suspecting that they were running ahead of what the Bible was directly telling us. It took me another 12 years, however, before other Watchtower blunders finally brought me to my senses.

I mean no disrespect in the illustrations toward those in menial, yet honorable occupations. I cry inwardly for those who bought in to that influence, giving themselves permission to take the easy way out as to advanced education. Yes, furthering one's education is a difficult task, even impossible to some. But, to those with the passion and resources to pursue some exciting career, it's a tragedy when one neglects that opportunity.

The following links of those images my be useful in your email correspondence.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6GsPuI-ZdwOZ3dOa3UxTU8wckE/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6GsPuI-ZdwORm1ZR2FWd2FNbXM/view?usp=sharing

Len Miller

5

Strange JW obituary, a Marshalltown acquaintance from years ago

by FatFreek 2005 in

i'm pasting her obituary below following a google search for her children's names.

i was actually wondering whether she was still in the cult.

according to the obit, she was when she passed some 3 years ago but i suspect she was still a fringe jw as i remember her in the 50's.. janet keeler, as i knew her and her husband buck, attended the marshalltown, iowa congregation when she was in her late 20's.

FatFreek 2005

To me, being memorialized at a Kingdom Hall means the local bros considered her in good standing. That verb "was" therefore implied that she was all those things at the time of her death.

Interestingly, the acronym P.E.O. could very well have stood for Philanthropic and Educational Organization for Women, what some folks consider a secretive group. Promoting education would fit Janet.

I wonder if her last husband was a JW since the obit was probably written by him. I also wonder what role her older son had in perhaps the writing of the obit since it contained info that seems contrary to WT teachings. You see, we ran into the youngest son at a district convention in the late sixties and he couldn't wait to gossip about his older sibling's sexual orientation.

Hey that's been many years ago and they could both be ex jws which I hope is the case. I also hope they share some family bonding today despite that moral fence.

5

Strange JW obituary, a Marshalltown acquaintance from years ago

by FatFreek 2005 in

i'm pasting her obituary below following a google search for her children's names.

i was actually wondering whether she was still in the cult.

according to the obit, she was when she passed some 3 years ago but i suspect she was still a fringe jw as i remember her in the 50's.. janet keeler, as i knew her and her husband buck, attended the marshalltown, iowa congregation when she was in her late 20's.

FatFreek 2005

I'm pasting her obituary below following a Google search for her children's names. I was actually wondering whether she was still in the cult. According to the obit, she was when she passed some 3 years ago but I suspect she was still a fringe JW as I remember her in the 50's.

Janet Keeler, as I knew her and her husband Buck, attended the Marshalltown, Iowa congregation when she was in her late 20's. I suspect Buck was in his mid 40's when they separated. He was assistant congregation servant and was stricken with some type of nerve disorder that left him paralyzed from the waist down. He moved to New Jersey and took up watch repair and I never saw him again.

First thing you know and she had re-married, after moving to Iowa City, to a physician there. She had become an LPN. Gossip was that she wasn't getting her "marriage due" from husband Buck, therefore their divorce. I don't know about any disciplinary action from that congregation as it is 90 miles away.

Janet was a smart gal, always thinking out of the box on certain issues. You'll notice that she was a member of the republican party alongside a member of the Watchtower Society. That's a strange alliance for a JW as I remember. But I've been out for 39 years. She also became well-educated -- good for her. Len Miller.

Here's her obit

Janet Louise Provan, (nee, Bartlett, Keeler, Greif), died on Jan. 22, 2013, in Auburn, Calif. at the age of 81. She had been successfully struggling with Alzheimer's disease for the past several years, but began to deteriorate quickly this past spring.

She was born to Herbert and Ladonna (Crumbaugh) Bartlett on Oct. 26, 1931, below Mormon Ridge west of Albion. Doctor Noble, of Clemons, was the attending physician. She attended Hazel Green School, Monroe High School and Clemons High School. Much of her early life was spent living on Mormon Ridge where her father ran a saw mill and farmed. She was awarded an LPN by the University of Iowa's College of Nursing, Iowa City, an RN by Long Beach City College, Long Beach, Calif., and a Bachelor of Science, by the University of Northern Iowa, Cedar Falls, where she also did graduate work in Anthropology. She was a member of the Waterloo Medical Auxiliary, P.E.O., the Republican Party and The Watchtower, Bible and Tract Society, keeping her an active and contributing member of each community in which she lived. She was born during the depression. She faced life directly, looking it straight in the eye as can be seen in this photo. She was rewarded with a full and eventful life.

She is survived by her husband: William Provan of Auburn, Calif.; two sons: Allen Herbert Keeler, of New York, N.Y., and Daniel Lee (Helen Mikros) Keeler, of Martinsville, Va., a daughter: Sarah Lynn (Steve) Prekker (nee, Greif), of Plymouth, Minn.; two siblings: Joann M. Thatcher, of Alva, Okla., and William D. Bartlett, of Hubbard; a sister-in-law, Rena Bartlett (nee, Dixon), of rural Albion; seven grandchildren, two great-grandchildren and nine nieces and nephews.

She was preceded in death by her grandparents: Ely and Amanda (Hamblin) Bartlett; Walter and Blanche (Peters) Crumbaugh; her parents; her older brother, James H. Bartlett; a sister-in-law, Barbara (Bobbie) Bartlett (nee, Funke); a brother-in-law, Charles O. Thatcher, her first husband: Hanford M. Keeler (Buck) and her second husband, Dr. Donald A. Greif. She was also preceded by two nephews: Kevin Michael Cagwin and Mica Charles Thatcher and a niece, Jacqueline Sue Thatcher (nee, Cagwin).

Per her expressed wish, her remains were cremated. She will be memorialized at The Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses near Auburn, Calif., on Feb. 23, 2013.

24

Calling Frank Toth (fjtoth) -- we need your Bethel expertise, please!!!

by FatFreek 2005 in

frank,.

we are trying to complete the names of those folks from bethel who are on the cover of the infamous 1984 watchtower.

some people who know you have the feeling you may know them.

FatFreek 2005

I just noticed that this thread has been resurrected (no pun intended) and it continues to make me proud of the contributions of information from many on this forum. It is my belief that the birth and passing dates have been verified and complete for quite some time. Fact is, by April, 2011 the data was in and I was able to complete several illustrations. That was more than 5 years ago. By that time, some 3 years had already gone by since the last of that Watchtower cover group of elderly had passed away.

One of the illustrations is on the first page of this thread. For your convenience I will repost the 3 I have created so you can easily copy their links for, say, emailing to friends and relatives. To copy a link, right click the image (in Windows) and select "copy image address".

Len Miller

6

Any Kingdom Halls not displaying the JW.ORG sign?

by FatFreek 2005 in

i've only noticed one when we're on hwy 79, north of our camden, ar, usa.

it is the relatively new kh in fordyce, ar, on that main highway.

is this the rule rather than the exception?.

FatFreek 2005

I've only noticed one when we're on Hwy 79, north of our Camden, AR, USA. It is the relatively new KH in Fordyce, AR, on that main highway.

Is this the rule rather than the exception?

Should we send them a letter of reproof on Watchtower letterhead?

Len

23

I have a favor to ask. I need to find a statement that was in one of the magazines, but I can't find it now. Can you help?

by AndersonsInfo in

jw
friends

i have a favor to ask.

i need some information found in a watchtower that i can't seem to find in my library.

today, the watchtower teaches that the governing body is the faithful slave.

FatFreek 2005

By 1959 it seems that the "governing body" and "the faithful and discreet slave" became synonymous. Check out the following 4 Watchtower quotations". (By the way, search your library CD with the two quoted expressions -- "governing body" "discreet slave".)

The following Watchtower deems the two as synonymous.

*** w59 6/15 p. 368 par. 2 Meeting Today’s Needs of the Sheep ***
Sheep need to be fed, not only led. How are they being fed? "The faithful and discreet slave whom his master appointed over his domestics to give them their food at the proper time" certainly is making ample provision. The governing body of Jehovah’s visible organization supplies plenty of good food for all the sheep, including the overseers.

The following Watchtower implies that the "slave" "has a governing body".

*** w60 7/15 p. 438 par. 1 Staying Awake with the "Faithful and Discreet Slave" ***
THE Biblical connections and the abundant array of Scriptural credentials of the "faithful and discreet slave" class have already been examined. This class was found to be the anointed witnesses of Jehovah operating today in all parts of the earth through their now seventy-six-year-old legal servant, the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania. This "slave" class has a governing body rendering counsel and direction as prefigured by Elihu when he gave counsel to ancient Job.

The following Watchtower quotation equates "The Society" with the "discreet slave".

*** w61 3/1 p. 147 par. 13 The Congregation in the Time of the End ***
. This development was completed by 1938 when congregations world-wide expressed their wish to be organized completely under the direction of "The Society," "the faithful and discreet slave" class, who would hereafter appoint all overseers and their assistants in the congregations and who would direct all study and preaching arrangements.

The following deems the two as synonymous.

*** w63 9/15 p. 575 Questions From Readers ***
Even as Jehovah had a channel to serve as an authority or governing body in the days of the apostles and following Pentecost, A.D. 33, so today Jehovah God has a governing body, a "faithful and discreet slave" class, that oversees the work of the Christian witnesses of Jehovah in the New World society.